Frances Hall:
Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the latest ARBV webinar in its CPD webinar series, the title of this presentation is guidance documents for and tools for producing a compliant design.
My name is Frances Hall.
I'm a special counsel with Weir legal and consulting, but we are a legal and consulting firm and we provide advice and legal support to regulators and to government departments throughout Australia and with a particular focus on building regulation and also architectural matters.
I will be joined today by German Ferrando-Miguel from the office of the State Building surveyor at the Victorian Building Authority.
German is the manager of regulatory services in the office of the building surveyor at the Victorian Building Authority.
He is the manager of the team that interacts with policy makers in designing and developing changes to legislation, regulations and technical standards.
The development of binding determination 6 within his team, Herman brings 16 years of experience designing and implementing regulatory reform in the public service in the areas of Environment Protection, energy efficiency and more recently building and plumbing.
His favourite architect is Anthony Gowdy and his favourite building is the Hunter Twasa House in Vienna.
And apologies if I mispronounced that, I'm sure I did.
So we will start with an acknowledgement of country.
We respectfully acknowledge the traditional owners of the lands on which this seminar is being presented, and wherever attendees are situated, in particular the Orangerie people of the cooler nation, and we pay our respects to their elders, past and present.
Uh, now our process for today is I'm gonna start with an overview of what the webinar content is going to be.
And there will be some quiz questions that are interspersed in the presentation today for your CPD purposes.
You're learning purposes and we hope to also have come some time left over at the end for questions.
If you do have questions, please put them in the Q&A function in your teams.
And please try and keep the questions reasonably general as we can't answer, we obviously can't give advice on specific topics, so they are webinar today is.
I suppose addressing the various resources that are available to you in relation to ensuring that you have design compliance.
Obviously I'm producing compliant designs, is of critical importance for designers and architects.
But also it's also relevant to understand any issues that might come up during the building.
What process to the extent that any of you are involved in contract administration or other services, either before they're building permit is issued?
It's it's very helpful to understand what resources are available when issues need to be assessed and determined.
So in the first instance and you don't be aware that design and and sighting requirements are governed primarily by the building Act, the Victorian Building Act and by the building regulations that accompany that act and the National Construction code.
I'm sure you will all have encountered the reality that those provisions can be complicated and they can be difficult to interpret and difficult to apply in specific factual scenarios.
Umm, of course the the first recourse in determining what a design requirement is to look at the legislation.
So the ACT, the regulations or their particular provisions of the national Construction code, but there are also other documents that are available to assist you when that's not clear or when there might perhaps be a dispute about how a particular provision should apply.
And that's what we're gonna talk about today.
So I will be talking about ministerial guidelines issued under the Building Act about practice notes issued by the VBA and about NCC guidance materials.
And I just just a quick note for my comments.
To the extent that I'm commenting on VBA material, I should say that those are the comments of me and of week we are legal and consulting.
They're not VBA commentary, and we're then going to talk about the recent amendment to the building act to allow binding determinations, and that is what Herman is going to talk to you about today.
What are binding determinations?
Who issues them and what's their effect?
And for all of those different types of resources what's the legal effect of those documents and how should they be used.
So next slide please. Thank you.
So ministerial guidelines, so ministerial guidelines are documents that have been issued by the Minister, who has authority in relation to building act matters.
And I should say there are all sorts of ministerial guidelines under various pieces of legislation, but for our purposes today, I'm just going to talk about the building act ones because they are the ones that will have relevance to you in the design in, in, in the preparation of building designs.
So they are issued pursuant to specific powers given to the Minister under the Building Act and ministerial guidelines have the force of law, so they must be complied with and to the extent that they contain interpretation in the guideline, that is, that is binding.
So there are 15 ministerial guidelines that are currently in force under the Building Act.
Not all of them will be relevant to architects, but taking into account the ones that are most likely to be relevant will look first at ministerial guideline 12, which is the guideline issued in relation to the sighting and design of single dwellings, noting that that's recently been updated to respond to planning changes relating to small secondary dwellings previously called Granny Flats.
Uh so ministerial guideline 12.
I'm operates sort of interacting with part five of the building regulations, so part five of the building regulations sets out a raft of generic sighting and design requirements for Class 1A buildings on a site, but part failure only applies where there isn't a planning permit required for that building work where where a planning permit is required, then it will be the planning scheme for that municipality that will govern those sighting and design requirements.
So if you're in a position where there is no planning permit required, and so part 5 applies and and where report and consent is sort for a variation to part 5 requirements, and I'm conscious that this is it's very common to seek report and consent.
Umm uh ministerial guideline 12 must be followed by the reporting authority.
So it's very useful for architects and building designers to know how the guideline operates so that they can gauge whether variation is likely to be approved and what the sort of things are.
Council will look at when deciding on a report and consent application.
So I've set out here and an example just just a page of what the guideline looks like.
So you can see it starts out with a paragraph that sets out the purpose of it.
It then goes into definitions.
I haven't. I haven't set out the entirety of the guideline because it's quite a number of pages, but then it will go section by section through each of the sighting requirements.
It's so if we could go to the next page, please.
And so the guidelines sets out 17 different sighting requirements and you'd all be familiar with these sorts of requirements.
They have to do with the setbacks from the front, the side and the rear building height, site coverage, private open space overshadowing and for each of those 17 requirements, the guidelines set out criteria that the reporting authority must consider.
And those things vary depending on what they requirement is, but they include things like amenity of existing neighbourhood dwellings.
They include things like disruption to the streetscape and other things like that, so.
We could jump to the next slide please.
So that just gives you an overview of how that guideline works and if you if you read through it, it should leave you with a good sense of the approach that Council should be taking when considering a a report and consent application.
So it's a really useful document to have, so I've listed here some other potentially relevant ministerial guidelines that includes ministerial Guideline 3 and that governs how a Council should decide a request for reduced set back in terms of the views of neighbours of neighbouring owners MJ 11, which is building permit and planning, permit consistency.
I'm sure you'd all be familiar with the requirement that they design that accompanies a building permit application must be consistent with the approved planning permit drawings.
But the question is how do you assess that and how does a building surveyor decide what matters are relevant in determining consistency, so that can be a useful one in terms of understanding how a building surveyor will approach the assessment of the documents that are supplied to them when they're assessing a design for a building permit application.
Then there is ministerial Guideline 13, which relates to the exercise of discretion when applying a new building regulation or an amendment to a building regulation.
So I'm. Can you maybe familiar with this process, but section 10 of the building Act says that the version of the National construction code that is in force at the time that they are assessing the building permit application or at the time that the design has been substantially progressed is the version that will apply to that building work.
That can be very important.
I'm sure you'd all be very aware that it can take quite some time for a design to progress from the initial sort of pre planning permit phase to the building permit phase and it is sometimes the case that the national construction code will change in the mean time.
And so the question of which version will apply to the building work can be quite a fraught one.
And this ministerial guidelines that governs how building surveyors should be making that decision and the last one is ministerial guideline 15.
And this is one of the more recent ones.
It relates to remediation work proposals for mitigating cladding risks for buildings containing combustible cladding.
So next slide please.
So if you need to have a look at any ministerial guidelines, they are all located on the VBA website.
This is their current location.
And I would recommend with all of these resources, I would recommend that if you download one and save it to your desktop so that you can continue to refer to it, it's always a good practice to make sure that the version that you're looking at is up to date.
Ministerial guidelines can change over time or they can be revoked or replaced with new ministerial guidelines, so it's good practice to make sure that you're relying on the correct guideline, so I'll now move on to the NBA practice notes.
So practice notes are documents issued by the VBA which provide guidance on interpretation of requirements under the building act, including design requirements.
There are two categories of practice.
Note there are building practice notes and plumbing practice notes, and you'll see if you have a look on the maybe a website that they are sort of categorized by issue type and each and each sort of issue type there might be, you know three or four different practice notes that relate to that particular type of issue and they she thought in length.
Some can be the the building ones can be more of a I think a more general sort of overview of the particular issue.
The plumbing practice notes tend to be very technical and very detailed.
Thank you.
So, umm, what are they used for their designed for use by building practitioners, including building designers and architects.
So each practice note you'll see when you look at them specifies the intended audience for them, which frequently includes architects.
So they're intended to provide practical guidance in how to apply the requirements that are set out in the ACT and the regulations and the NCC.
They might give examples of how the provisions should be applied.
They might include diagrams to assist you in understanding how the provisions work in certain scenarios, and it is important to note they don't have the force of law, so they provide really useful practical guidance, but they are not a legislative tool or instrument themselves.
They're not incorporated into the act or anything like that.
They've been developed by the VBA to assist practitioners in understanding how how the app works.
Uh, thank you.
So they are used by a building surveyors when reviewing design documents for a building permit application or when issues arise during construction.
They can also be used by councils.
You'll all be aware that councils have enforcement actions, sorry enforcement powers under the Building Act, and they also have and sort of pre building work functions.
So things like report and consent applications, so they might have recourse to those practice notes when considering how something, how particular issue should be resolved and they may also be referred to by parties in building appeals board proceedings or other court proceedings where there is a dispute about how the law applies to a particular building issue.
They might be regarded as being of assistance to the court in determining that issue, but they're not binding on the court in making a decision.
Ok next slide please.
Uh, this is an example of a plumbing practice note.
And again, I haven't included the whole document here, but it's just an example.
So you can see how it's been set out.
You can see up the top.
It has the intended audience, which includes architects and building designers.
It sets out the purpose of the practice.
Note it contains the common definitions and it then moves on to the sort of operative provisions.
I next slide.
Umm, so you can see here for example it includes different types.
This this particular practice note relates to box cutters.
It's giving sort of some diagrams so that you can see how they provisions might operate next slide.
And it includes, helpfully, some photos which give examples of non dental satisfy box gutter installations.
So it's it's quite a detailed practice note and it's it's designed to.
Enable and enable designs to be as complete as possible.
It is one of the purposes of this sort of a practice note.
Next slide please.
OK, so practice notes can be found on the VBA website and I understand also that the AIA is also publishing new practice notes as they get released through their fortnightly newsletter.
So if you subscribe to that newsletter then you should be informed of new practice notes as they get released.
Again, as with the ministerial guidelines, I would say you should always check whether you're using the most up to date version.
The VBA goes through a process of periodically reviewing and amending those practice notes, so it's it's good practice to check whether it's the most current version.
Next slide please.
OK.
So we've come to our first quiz question and the question is what is the legal status of VBA practice notes?
I should say there should be a poll come up if you can't see the poll on your screen then you can put your.
Please put it into the question and answer function on your teams.
So the question is, what is the legal status of VBA practice?
Notes a.
Are they incorporated by reference into the Building Act B?
Do they provide authoritative guidance but aren't binding?
See they are binding on registered building practitioners, so I'll give you a minute to put your answer.
OK so and I can see the answers here and most of you got it right.
The answer is B.
They provide authoritative guidance, but they aren't binding.
So I'm I'm now going to pass over to German.
who is going to talk to you about binding determinations.
Thanks, German.
German Ferrando-Miguel:
Thank you, Frances.
Thank you everyone.
I can see your hand up.
Please, is that something that we address with or?
Out talking about with my presentation and then I'll, I'll let call it manage on the back end.
So in terms of the binding determinations, what are they and why are they made?
The important thing to understand for about binding determinations is that they are not just tool, but they are a legislative function of the State Building surveyor under the building act with the changes that came through in February 2024.
So what that means is that in contrast to a practice note which may give and they are a tool that can be used, there's actually a function that is given to the State Building surveyor within the VA obviously they are an interpretation of a standard or a requirement, so they are a standard setting tool.
They are not a compliance management tool.
They are not to establish compliance or they are not to manage compliance, but they are enforceable.
They are not guidance.
They are not advised they become and they achieve the same status as the regulations or the legislation or the legislative instrument that they are interpreting so they can cover both building work or plumbing work.
But they need to operate within the existing framework they manage on being consistent with the ACT or the regulations that they're interpreting and the broader legislative framework.
So they can be used to provide a binding interpretation of what's required, but they also need to be mindful that they cannot create a new application if that obligation doesn't exist in the existing framework, they cannot modify an existing regulation or an existing standard.
They need to provide a valid interpretation within that regulation or standard.
They are not to impose new standards or new administrative requirements.
They can interpret what level of administration or evidence may be required, but they cannot create the new administrative requirement, and that interpretation must be anchored and consistent within the existing framework.
So for example, the one critical aspect of the building the plumbing framework is the availability of uh the practitioner to choose the into satisfy provisions versus performance submissions, and the NC covers the different elements of performance solutions and the methods that that can be achieved.
So a binding termination for example, could not change the availability or not of the intensify or performance solutions in that regard.
However, you might interpret what might be required in each case.
Are the Bunny terminations they need to be published?
Maybe's website and they need to be gazetted for the duration that the bindings termination is valid.
Uh, what that means is that we can choose when the Stability surveyor chooses to issue a binding determination, it can determine the date of the publication as the date that it becomes valid and it starts, or it can get the head with a later date for implementation.
And that is a valid tool and a good way to actually manage some transitional arrangements and make sure that the industry understands the the applications that are interpreted in that binding termination.
Because of the nature of these tool and these function which is equivalent to basically making regulations in a way but interpreting within the regulations, the maximum duration of by determination is 10 years, but they can be resolved fairly if required.
Why would we need that tool or that function?
Well, as I said, they are unenforceable to and they prescribe an interpretation of technical standards and requirements, and so they are a very valid tool and very powerful tool to focus on instances strategically where diversion interpretation is prominent in the industry and we can see or we have intelligence that some of the interpretations are leading to harm and not meeting performance requirements or standards.
So in that regard, it's a very valid tool, very powerful and very robust tool to set cloudy and give clarity as to what can be interpreted or not the next one please.
So where do they see it and when will we issue?
By the terminations, they sit within the broader objective and functions of the State Building surveyor and those are to drive improved building system performance and policy outcomes.
So what the building surveyor has a number of functions and objectives.
Under the legislation, they need to drive improvements of standards and the regulatory frameworks, and they all stay in.
The survey also needs to support practitioners with advice, guidance and education, so it's a complementary tool.
The bonding termination that sits within that framework of driving improvements and driving clarity, uh, these empower will be A to implement then the compliance and enforcement policy framework.
So the greater clarity and the greater the level of knowledge are in the industry of what is required and how to comply then the more visible the VBA can take compliance actions.
Basically, uh, we will use this tool strategically on areas of existing concern and alignment with the BPH regulatory policy statement which is published on our on our website.
And you can access it.
You can see what it means and you can see how it relates to architects and designers in general.
The binding determinations will be used proactively.
There is no provision under the legislation that allows for applications from industry or from interested parties to suggest or request a binding termination being issued.
However, we are obviously as part of our normal duty and engagement process, consulting with relevant industry, big bodies and professional associations to get their feedback as to where they see that and what are the areas where this tool might be best deployed because they are an enforceable and they are an interpretation of regulations, standards or legislation, they are not appealable to VCAT, but they are appealable to the Supreme Court of Victoria and that is on a matter of law.
They are not on the technical basis of that interpretation, but they are on the legal basis for that interpretation.
Can I have the next one please?
So how are we going to go about?
How are we going about actually issuing by determinations?
We have developed a policy and we are finalizing our protocol though that protocol in the policy obviously needs to be integrated within the broader set of tools.
As I indicated that the State Building Surveyor has leaves this portal to solve a particular issue of clarity.
So within that framework, the stability is OK, I can choose to issue a binding termination or follow a different pathway like publishing a new practice node or engaging with the department and the Minister for the need of a ministerial guideline, for example.
So there are different avenues that the Stability surveyor can progress.
Similarly, if the issue is about a particular technical requirement in the regulations or in the NCC through my team, the State Building surveyor has the opportunity to engage with either this Australian building code or the relevant policymaker owning the legislation and the regulations to manage the process of regulatory change.
So those are all different avenues and different pathways that are available for the state buildings or layer to create or improve where possible.
The clarity of what is required if those are not optimal avenues or tools compared to a mining determination, then the State Building surveyor has the ability to issue about determination, enforcing or prescribing.
I particular interpretation that doesn't mean that we need to choose one or the other Ave, the State Building surveyor can't choose two different avenues or the users two different tools to solve a specific problem.
So they can issue a binding determination on a particular aspect, but at the same time initiate the process and engagement with policymakers as to the value for regulatory changes to improve the level of clarity on a more permanent basis.
We can also do that in terms of education.
We can choose to issue an extermination, but at the same time in hands or strengthen some of the practice nodes that are already there or create new ones.
So those are the different tools or the different ways that the building surveyor can give effect and use its function of issuing a binding determination.
Can I have the next one please?
So the question is, what does the State Building surveyor need to do?
Ones that I need termination is issued, so do they just need to send an email to industry?
Do they just need to publish a note on our website or BS website?
Do they need to publish it in the Victorian Gazette or do they need to publish the binding termination in VBA's website and in the Victorian Gazette?
I'll give a minute.
And similarly to Frances, if you can't see that, feel free to actually post your answer in the Q&A section.
So I see that there's 340 responses already there.
OK.
So the number of responses is now steady at around 368 370.
And yes, the vast majority of you are right.
The state building surveyor needs to publish the actual binding determination in VBA's website, so not just a note about it and needs to publish it in the Victorian Gazette.
That doesn't mean that as best practice, the state building surveyor will do those two in terms of legislative obligation, but you will also engage with industry and broaden the communication of that by the information via publication of notes and sending emails to industry.
So in technical bulletins, for example, you should by the VBA or in other electronic messaging.
So we will boost those two avenues to make sure that we reach industry and they understand that binding termination has been issued.
And what are the implications for them?
So in that regard, I thought that given the high level concept of what a binding termination is and that it has a very particular niche element of being constrained, but very powerful in terms of interpreting and not changing, but interpreting what the standard is or what the regulations say, I thought that I would choose an example.
It's a hypothetical example.
It is not, in any way, shape or form, or cannot be construed that we are actually looking into this as a as an actual target for opening the termination.
But we're not, but for example, the new liberal housing provisions they have in the DNC, they have a performance requirement, which is 8 P one that basically says a class one building must be provided with continuous and step free access and it gives different avenues for that.
It can be either from the pedestrian or from garage, or from parking space and one level step free entrance door to the dwelling.
US required by it, but then you go out the didn't satisfy provisions and you say you look at the the provision is basically say that they need to follow a BCB standard for liberal housing design, which translates and gives effect to that performance requirement in more detail and numerical and considers different things.
But it also says that clause 1.1 of the ECMA standard does not need to be complied if the following alley, which is a step free access as an important in garage or carport, is not provided and one of the more following exists which is that the slope or the site is not suitable for a step free access because of the slope or because yeah they cannot provide or if there's insufficient space.
And so the typical an example of what about determination might look at is why is the step free access not provided and how does that apply?
Is it because of the design prevents the sufficient space for that step free access?
Or is it because the side doesn't have enough space to provide a design that gives step free access?
A second question that a binding determination might tackle is is the criteria in H2D2A, which is the step free access behind the garage?
If that is there because it's not provided because of the design, or is it because it's not provided because of the site constraints?
So that's another possible way that the binding termination can interpret what that means.
The other thing that that many termination might want to look at is does the exemption in HHD 2?
So that didn't satisfy provisions, given that they mentioned the garage and the step free access.
They don't mention the pedestrian entry.
I development battery and they don't mention the step three level to the entrance door.
So does it mean that that exemption doesn't apply to those two criteria or performance requirements?
Do they still need to be provided regardless of the design inside constraints?
So that's the type of thing that the binding determination would tackle.
It would.
The practice note would be guidance.
It would give advice.
This is our view, this one we think, but a binding determination, interpret and determine what it is, how to interpret and what it means.
So that's the basic difference between a practice note and a binding determination.
It needs to interpret within the constraints of the framework as to what it means or what does it mean.
So with that, if we move to the next question and then next poll.
It's very simple one.
It tricky as well.
So can the State Building survey at issue binding determination to prescribe a change to the team to satisfy provisions in Edge 82?
So the answer is possible.
Are yes, the binding determinations apply to technical standards and that is a technical standard.
Yes, the binding determinations can change standards when they are not clear or no.
The one in the ammunition cannot change the standard.
All interpret it.
If it's not clear.
So I can see that we've reached around 350 responses already.
And this is an interesting one.
So what I can see from the results so far is that 85% say no.
The binding determination cannot change a standard.
Don't interpret it if it's not clear, however, 11% so around 43 people say yes, the binding determinations applied to technical standards and had two is a technical standard.
The correct answer is no.
Binding determinations cannot change standard.
All interpreting you may have or it may have the effect of changing practices of practitioners where they were interpreting the standard wrongly, but it doesn't change the standard.
It just prescribes that a certain interpretation is valid and the other interpretations are not valid, so it doesn't change the standard.
It interprets within the constraints of those standards, and that's the end of my presentation.
Thank you, everyone, back to you, Frances.
Frances Hall:
Thanks, German.
OK, so I'm gonna talk for a few minutes about NCC guidance materials and then hopefully we'll have a few minutes to take some questions at the end.
So please do have to think about whether you've got any questions and post them in the Q&A.
On teams, so NCC guidance, materials, what are they?
They are documents that have been prepared and issued by the Australian Building Codes Board.
That is the body that oversees the national construction code and it publishes the code and does a lot of work in revising and updating the code from time to time.
So and they guidance materials provide advice and guidance on the application of provisions of the NCC in various areas.
They they take various forms, there are handbooks, infographics, guidelines, guidance notes.
There's there's really actually a wealth of information on the ABCB website which is, which is pretty useful.
And next slide please.
So. What are they used for?
They they vary quite a bit, so there are some guidances you'll see.
They're very content specific to specific parts or even clauses of the NCC.
So for example, there is a guidance note on thermal bridging.
There's guidance notes on guttering, downpipes and overflow on condensation in buildings.
Or it might be a more generalised sort of guidance where topics are grouped together in a handbook is created.
So for example, there is the apartment Energy efficiency handbook.
There is the livable Housing Design handbook.
That sort of gathers together all of the OR some of the relevant materials that might relate to Class 1A buildings, for example.
And then there are other guidance documents that relate more to process rather than to content.
So for example, the the process for putting together a performance solution under the code, the assessment methods that can be used by a building surveyor in assessing a performance solution, you may be aware that that is a a sort of there's a a series of steps that that need to be followed and there are different methods of reaching satisfaction as to whether or not a performance solution will meet the relevant performance requirement in the NCC.
And then another example is Bush fire verification methods.
So that's more to do with whether a design will meet the relevant Bush fire attack level classification that has been imposed for that particular site.
Uh, next slide please.
An example is the guidance note issued late last year on thermal bridging.
The way that document works is it gives a a practical explanation of what it is it sets out what the NCC provisions require.
It then applies those provisions to, for example, roofs and ceilings, and then to external walls.
It describes how it applies to, for example, sole occupancy units, how it applies to common areas in apartment buildings, and then how to fix them or bridges is also dealt with and next slide please.
This is an example of the some of the thermal bridging and guidance issued by the NCC.
If you could just jump to the next slide please.
Umm, you can say it's reasonably detailed and it's reasonably technical, but it is sort of drafted in in a pretty clear.
I'm pretty clear use of language so that it's quite readable ohm.
It provides different case studies.
Next slide please.
And you can say it also includes some diagrams and some sort of practical detail, and it includes references to other resources on the ABCB website.
So next slide please.
Uh, you can say that in NCS a guidance materials are located on the ABCB website.
Umm, there's a link there, but you can also just Google it and it'll take you there.
Uh, the NCC guidance materials are similar to the practice notes in the sense that they are a guidance guidance document that has been issued by a government authority, but it is similar to a practice note.
It doesn't have the force of law.
It's not something that you can point to and say this is the law itself.
It's merely, you know, designed to assist you in understanding how they provisions might apply to any kind of given situation.
So it's a useful tool, but it can be distinguished from other documents like guidelines, determinations in the sense that it doesn't have that force of law.
So that takes us to our last quiz question.
I where different reference materials such as a binding determination in CC guidance or VBA practice note appear inconsistent.
Which document should take priority?
So I'll give you a minute to post an answer to that.
Can just type your answer in because it's not multiple choice.
OK.
Well, we've got 300 and almost 400 responses now, and so the answer is that a binding determination would take priority because it has it.
It is as, as the name says it binding, whereas NCC guidance and VBA practice notes are not binding and and just as an additional note to that, I would say that in terms of ministerial guidelines which I didn't put into the question and I I think you can safely assume that there won't be overlap between ministerial guidelines and binding determinations, because guidelines can only be issued by the Minister where there's a specific power under the Act.
And so it's very unlikely that there would be a sort of an interaction or an inconsistency between the the subject matter of a binding determination and a ministerial guideline.
So that brings us to the end of our our talk today and we've got a couple of minutes if anybody wants to post questions in the Q&A section on teams, please do so.
And now I might just jump in here.
I did notice there was a question earlier on that I noticed and and that was about whether there are binding determinations in other jurisdictions in Australia and German, I'll throw to you in a second.
But I I might just start by saying that I'm not aware of any other jurisdictions employing this approach and it would be the the the question also asked when will there be harmonisation of this and certainly from my perspective, harmonisation of of the building laws between the different jurisdictions?
Is is very desirable and lots of that.
There's been lots of talk about that happening, but we are unfortunately a long way away from that yet.
But and then you might you might know a bit more about this than me.
Can I throw to you on that?
German Ferrando-Miguel:
Yes. Thanks Frances.
You're correct the there is no similar equivalent tool or power in other jurisdictions with regards to the signal to the binding determination, power and tool that is given to the State Building survey of.
In fact, the the function in the figure of the State Building survey as a clause independent figure between the Victorian Building authority.
It's obviously not independent.
We are part of the Victorian Building authority, but that figure out the technical expertise it's own state of religiosity functions.
Is is somewhat different from the rest of jurisdictions as well.
In terms of harmonization, while I am obviously not in charge of that, that is a matter for all jurisdictions to consider and there's obviously national processes that addressed that other ministerial level.
That is a very strong push for harmonization, whether a similar function to the stipulates away or by terminations is part of that.
I am not Privy to those conversations, so I'll show account to provide an answer.
Frances Hall:
Another question that came up earlier was in relation to the question of, Umm, when part five of the building regulation applies.
The question is if a design only requires a planning permit for a heritage overlay, does the building surveyor assess against part 5 sighting of building regulations or against res code for sighting?
Umm, you'd really have to look at that on a case by case basis.
So what? What the building regulations requires, I think it's Regulation 68.
That says.
And that part five will not apply where a building permit is required.
I I'm sorry we weren't planning.
Permit is required and where the planning scheme provisions regulate the same things as the as part five of the building regulations.
So I would say the ads are, and he's probably that part 5 does not apply in that scenario.
And German, were there any questions that you wanted to answer?
German Ferrando-Miguel:
Yes, Frances.
There was one about UM, our binding determinations typically incorporated into future and to see additions, those are separate documents and they are separate jurisdictions.
So the brief answer is no, not automatically.
However, if the state building surveyor issues a binding determination of what people have made the system under and the rest of us use directions and through the process of the ABC Board or the building, the BCC or the plumbing GCC, they consider that that interpretation or that other strengthening in terms of clarity is warranted to be incorporated into the DNC, then that's obviously a viable approach and it's a it's available to the jurisdictions and the ABCD to incorporate, but no, not automatically and not by definition they are separate jurisdiction, no documents and therefore separate statuses.
Frances Hall:
OK, well I'm, I'm conscious of the fact that that we've reached 1:00 PM, so it might be best for us to leave it there.
But thank you everyone for joining us today and for answering the questions.
I hope you've found it useful and thank you in particular to German for joining from the VBA.
I think we all look forward with a lot of interest to see the binding determinations and and how they work.
And I think they'll be of of great assistance.
So thank you everyone.
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